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Sijiao Pao (4-footed Catapult) 10th century A.D. Tang dynasty heavy traction catapult

#1 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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  Posted 27 September 2005 - 03:38 AM

Ok I need to start this eventually. Gonna post the photos here as usual. Check back often! :o

Exploded view.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Liang Jieming: 04 October 2005 - 09:51 PM

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#2 User is offline   keith 

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:13 AM

Woo hoo!

I was goin through withdrawals. :o
"I have drawn into myself so much that I literally do not see any other people anymore-- excepting the peasants with whom I have direct contact, since I paint them." ~ Vincent van Gogh
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#3 User is offline   KristoCat 

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 03:30 PM

Great to see you're working on these again, Jieming. Did you get more shelf space? :o
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#4 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:42 PM

Hehehe no unfortunately not. I'm still shelf starved since I've also been accumulating lots of books lately. This is a pretty large treb so it'll just have to sit on the floor.
DragonSeed Legacy
Chinese Siege Warfare: Mechanical Artillery & Siege Weapons of Antiquity

Have Pride, Not Arrogance.

"History should be fun... and hands-on"
"Insufficient adversity dulls the mind"
"The greater the adversity, the brighter the spark of opportunity"
"I fear not death so much as I fear not being able to live"


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#5 User is offline   keith 

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 12:46 PM

View PostLiang Jieming, on Sep 27 2005, 09:42 PM, said:

This is a pretty large treb so it'll just have to sit on the floor.

Cool. When do we get an update on your progress?
"I have drawn into myself so much that I literally do not see any other people anymore-- excepting the peasants with whom I have direct contact, since I paint them." ~ Vincent van Gogh
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#6 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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Posted 23 October 2005 - 08:02 AM

Ahhhh... been tied up, not the least due to my $@%$# harddrive crashing and losing all my old stuff in the process.

Ok, will start soon promise. I've been doing extra research on this treb to try and see if there are any illustrations or descriptions of it's transition to a HCW version (like that of the HuDun Pao).
DragonSeed Legacy
Chinese Siege Warfare: Mechanical Artillery & Siege Weapons of Antiquity

Have Pride, Not Arrogance.

"History should be fun... and hands-on"
"Insufficient adversity dulls the mind"
"The greater the adversity, the brighter the spark of opportunity"
"I fear not death so much as I fear not being able to live"


...明明白白我的心
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#7 User is offline   Ricker 

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Posted 23 October 2005 - 10:20 AM

View PostLiang Jieming, on Oct 23 2005, 09:02 AM, said:

Ahhhh... been tied up, not the least due to my $@%$# harddrive crashing and losing all my old stuff in the process.

Sorry to hear about your hard drive. That's one of the worst things that can happen. I hope you didn't lose too much and can maybe get some of it back from online.

Good luck on your research.

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#8 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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Posted 23 October 2005 - 08:20 PM

Well, yeah I've been trying to do just that. I'm pretty thankful that I've been so proliferic online. All my catapult pictures and my entire e-book were saved because of that. :)

Mainly lost all my raw image files and all the stuff I never got around to uploading to my yahoo group. :(
DragonSeed Legacy
Chinese Siege Warfare: Mechanical Artillery & Siege Weapons of Antiquity

Have Pride, Not Arrogance.

"History should be fun... and hands-on"
"Insufficient adversity dulls the mind"
"The greater the adversity, the brighter the spark of opportunity"
"I fear not death so much as I fear not being able to live"


...明明白白我的心
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#9 User is offline   keith 

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 03:11 PM

That sounds really bad. What are raw image files?
"I have drawn into myself so much that I literally do not see any other people anymore-- excepting the peasants with whom I have direct contact, since I paint them." ~ Vincent van Gogh
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#10 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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Posted 25 October 2005 - 11:30 AM

Raw image files are the original scanned images in high res or the working images in the various photoshop layers during editing and stuff. Really sucks to lose all that. The images I've uploaded are all the finish images, all nicely touched up and pretty but if I needed to go and redo a certain image, I'd have to start from scratch again without the raw image file.
DragonSeed Legacy
Chinese Siege Warfare: Mechanical Artillery & Siege Weapons of Antiquity

Have Pride, Not Arrogance.

"History should be fun... and hands-on"
"Insufficient adversity dulls the mind"
"The greater the adversity, the brighter the spark of opportunity"
"I fear not death so much as I fear not being able to live"


...明明白白我的心
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#11 User is offline   keith 

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 03:35 PM

Well, your pictures look good so you shouldn't need to go back and re-make raw files at least.. Are you going to start your Sijiao Pao design when you get back from bein on holiday?
"I have drawn into myself so much that I literally do not see any other people anymore-- excepting the peasants with whom I have direct contact, since I paint them." ~ Vincent van Gogh
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#12 User is offline   Possible genius 

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 06:54 PM

You've got some awesome set-ups.
If I build it, they will run

Greatness is not aquired by digging your-self out of the deepest hole, but avoiding it all together.
Inspired by The Amateur's Mind and The Art of War.


I've cut it three times and it's still to short.

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#13 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 11:20 AM

I'm back!!!! Ok, I'll get cracking on makin' it once I settle back down into the dredgery of the working life again. :bow_arrow: I'm still kinda in the holiday high. hehehe
DragonSeed Legacy
Chinese Siege Warfare: Mechanical Artillery & Siege Weapons of Antiquity

Have Pride, Not Arrogance.

"History should be fun... and hands-on"
"Insufficient adversity dulls the mind"
"The greater the adversity, the brighter the spark of opportunity"
"I fear not death so much as I fear not being able to live"


...明明白白我的心
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#14 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 09:42 PM

Here it goes before Keith throws a fit and starts acting strange from withdrawal. :)

Posted Image
24th November 2005 - Bought some long pieces for the 4 main legs. This should be a fairly large treb if I'm to keep to the same scale as before. Will make this treb with two different throw arms to get both traction and hcw versions.

Posted Image
30th November 2005 - Got around to chopping them up into tiny bits and pieces finally. The problem I'm facing with this catapult is that it's traditionally a large catapult but it's absent of cross-bracing. The real SiJiao catapults had their legs buried into the ground. I obviously can't do that with my model, and if I just simply cut and joined pieces together it won't last very long so I need to socket joints. Took awhile to get the dimensions right.

Posted Image
1st December 2005 - This is the most tedious part. Spent about a hour cutting and sawing out all the sockets and slots.

Posted Image
2nd December 2005 - Assembly of the two main frames and machining of secondary members.

Posted Image
3rd December 2005 - The frame is almost complete. Will need to start on the throw arm next.

Posted Image
5th December 2005 - Pivot completed.

Posted Image
6th December 2005 - Throw Arm (Traction Version) -7 Bamboo rods tied together

Posted Image
12th December 2005 - Throw Arm (Hinged Counterweight Version) -7 Bamboo rods tied together

Posted Image
13th December 2005 - Counterweight bucket

This post has been edited by Liang Jieming: 13 December 2005 - 08:03 PM

DragonSeed Legacy
Chinese Siege Warfare: Mechanical Artillery & Siege Weapons of Antiquity

Have Pride, Not Arrogance.

"History should be fun... and hands-on"
"Insufficient adversity dulls the mind"
"The greater the adversity, the brighter the spark of opportunity"
"I fear not death so much as I fear not being able to live"


...明明白白我的心
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#15 User is offline   keith 

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 11:46 PM

Two different throwing arms? This'll be great. Which one do you think will perform better?

View PostLiang Jieming, on Nov 23 2005, 09:42 PM, said:

Here it goes before Keith throws a fit and starts acting strange from withdrawal. :)

Hey, I resent that! I'm always strange..... :) I haven't been around for awhile, so I guess I already started to withdraw.
"I have drawn into myself so much that I literally do not see any other people anymore-- excepting the peasants with whom I have direct contact, since I paint them." ~ Vincent van Gogh
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#16 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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Posted 30 November 2005 - 08:56 PM

Both types have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Traction - easy/fast to transport, construct and setup, fast reloading, easier to adjust catapult throw range/projectile weight, throws only relatively lighter projectiles, needs a lot of manpower

Counterweight - counterweights difficult to transport, construct and setup, slow reloading, fixed range/projectile weight, can throw relatively larger projectiles, light in manpower

:)
DragonSeed Legacy
Chinese Siege Warfare: Mechanical Artillery & Siege Weapons of Antiquity

Have Pride, Not Arrogance.

"History should be fun... and hands-on"
"Insufficient adversity dulls the mind"
"The greater the adversity, the brighter the spark of opportunity"
"I fear not death so much as I fear not being able to live"


...明明白白我的心
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#17 User is offline   keith 

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 07:43 PM

The traction sounds a lot better to me.
"I have drawn into myself so much that I literally do not see any other people anymore-- excepting the peasants with whom I have direct contact, since I paint them." ~ Vincent van Gogh
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#18 User is offline   Possible genius 

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 06:54 PM

I think a good way of thinking about it is, traction trebs are good for infantry and such where as counterweight trebs can demolish walls and throws deseise ridden animals and flaming projectiles over walls. :laugh:
That's my take at least


Hey Jieming, thanks for posting these pics and all. I think I they will help me in the future. What do you use to machine the wood? Hand or power tools? Router? The tools you wouldn't want to go without.
If I build it, they will run

Greatness is not aquired by digging your-self out of the deepest hole, but avoiding it all together.
Inspired by The Amateur's Mind and The Art of War.


I've cut it three times and it's still to short.

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#19 User is offline   Liang Jieming 

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:46 PM

Usually all by hand... a powerdrill sometimes when I need a really long, straight hole. :laugh:
DragonSeed Legacy
Chinese Siege Warfare: Mechanical Artillery & Siege Weapons of Antiquity

Have Pride, Not Arrogance.

"History should be fun... and hands-on"
"Insufficient adversity dulls the mind"
"The greater the adversity, the brighter the spark of opportunity"
"I fear not death so much as I fear not being able to live"


...明明白白我的心
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#20 User is offline   KristoCat 

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 09:04 PM

Very impressive! :laugh:
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